Ecogra Certification Proposal - Discuss

[imported_Tommy]

This proposal has been posted over GAP today by Ecogra. Please feel free to discuss this here.

eCOGRA Updated Proposal
Thank you to the program managers and affiliates who have provided constructive feedback on the eCOGRA proposal, here in the forum and to us directly.

It is evident that there are various ways in which the affiliate industry can self-regulate, and to some extent this is already effectively happening through the forums, Affiliate Guard Dog, APCW etc.

What is however also evident is that there has been, and always will be, a strong demand from the affiliate community for an independent onsite audit conducted by qualified Chartered Accountants and IT specialists, with appropriate industry knowledge, of the tracking and revenue calculations of the affiliate program software.

Taking this into consideration, we have decided to provide a more focused certification process which will replace the existing certification, with the following implications:

1. The scope of our certification will be limited to ensuring that:

* Affiliate revenue is calculated accurately and deductions are correctly allocated
* Payments are completely and accurately processed
* Preventative and detective controls are in place to ensure accurate and correct linking of players to affiliates
* Program software applications are developed, implemented, maintained and secured in a manner representative of best practice standards

2. Review fees will be reduced to £5,000 per annum, excluding expenses;

3. Where possible testing will be conducted remotely, however it will also be necessary to conduct certain tests at the operator premises; and

4. eCOGRA will provide a dispute mediation channel for complaints relating to the scope of work specified in 1. above.

I would like to make it clear that our involvement will be limited to the standards covered in the audit and we will not be drawn into areas beyond our mandate from the programs which we have not audited, and cannot properly investigate (such as adequacy of funds, timing of payments to affiliates, and advertising practices).

Changes to the standards requires approval from eCOGRA’s Independent Directors, and I expect a revised version of standards to be published on our website at eGap at the end of May.

Any affiliate programs wishing to apply for eCOGRA Affiliate Trust Seal according to the revised scope described here can contact me at andrew@ecogra.org. I would also appreciate any further input in this regard.

Andrew Beveridge, CEO eCOGRA

[RockbetJohn]

I don't know if there is a conflict of interest but here are some questions:

Are the board members of ecogra former board members of Microgaming?
Why are Grand Prive still ecogra approved?
Does the player auditing system work? I have seen many posts of players who have had funds confiscated where ecogra sided with the casino and would only cite the terms and conditions that the casino has the right to do whatever it wants.

It seems like a conflict of interest to me, I could be wrong but why haven't others like Playtech, Vegas Technology and Real Time Gaming not participated with Ecogra when it's been around for so long?

[Randy]

My first question is, who is going to audit Ecogra? I mean it doesn't sound like they will be charging a lot, so a nice payoff could go a long way right? Of course I'm not trying to imply anything, I'm just bringing it up.. I see the potential for this to take an ugly turn.

Having said that, I do think there should be more regulation to this industry and I'm glad someone is stepping up. I honestly don't know a lot about Ecogra except what Kaus and Randy has mentioned about them. I'm new to the casino circuit so I don't know much.

It just seems to me that Ecogra is expanding their business model with this, and I am just wondering how I as a new affiliate can put any weight behind what any 3rd party audit firm does. Being in the corporate world I see payoffs and "favors" happen daily with some of the biggest companies and most hard core government regulators. So, I guess I'm just not expecting this to be much more than a "paid for stamp of approval"..

Will Ecogra also keep a listing of companies that fail their audit? Because that would be a little weird and I don't like the idea of any company being forced to pay another company to stay off the "bad list".. Essentially, if we adopt this idea as a good one, it could put many companies in a strange spot.

Now, let's say that a company like "party Casino" decides not to play this game, but players are aware of the auditing firm. How will this affect me as an affiliate promoting them w/o the seal of trust? Apply this same issue to poker regulation with a private held company like Pokerstars, we know they are top notch, but maybe they decide they don't want to deal with an audit firm in this way. Will this begin to sway players away from them and make MY sites look un-trustworthy?

So, I have some issues with this all.

[RockbetJohn]

Grand Prive group of casinos have shut off their affiliate program completely and told affiliates thanks for the players but no more payments. They are still certified by Ecogra so I don't know how other gaming companies or webmasters can take this proposal serious enough without hearing back on GP.

[mojo]

Grand Prive group of casinos have shut off their affiliate program completely and told affiliates thanks for the players but no more payments. They are still certified by Ecogra so I don't know how other gaming companies or webmasters can take this proposal serious enough without hearing back on GP.

This is what I am struggling with as well. I don't see ecogra having the affiliates best interest at heart when they still authorize their seal on Grand Prive casinos.

Without fairness with stats, players and affiliates accross the board a seal is meaningless. I don't want an affiliate seal if the program is treating players badly and vice versa. It needs to go hand in hand. Without being proactive with the GP issue to start, it will be meaningless.

While I like the idea of someone auditing the back end of stats, the conflict of interest is another issue. There are other issues I have seen as well.

There are just to many flaws to give weight to the ecogra seal at this time.

[CK]

How will this affect me as an affiliate promoting them w/o the seal of trust?

Not commenting much on this one only because I agree with alot of what's already here and I just don't think its going to be the end all solution to the problems for these companies.

Your question though Randy is - you explain that while eCogra does certify casinos, it doesnt mean that a casino not carrying the eCogra seal isnt as reputable or as honest. It means they havent gone through the steps to become an eCogra certfied casino. Name the different companies who do regulate casinos etc. THe proposal in my eyes is no different than whats already taking place just a little more public (which is why I dont think its going to change much if anything) So tell people where a casino is licensed, who performs the audits. Is it TST or PWC or maybe another? Who processes payments? Give some background details. Many of the companies have been around long enough that you can dig up quite a bit of info on them. Those details matter just as much if not more than the eCogra deal.

John - Do you have more info on eCogra siding with casinos and not players, even if players prove that something was unfair. I have some details on one of my pages that may need to be rewritten if this is a decision made in most cases.

While I like the idea of someone auditing the back end of stats, the conflict of interest is another issue. There are other issues I have seen as well.

I think that would be a great idea, however I think it needs to be someone who's not so heavily sided with online gambling like eCogra. It's gotta be done from a different company.

[Randy]

Yea that's right on Kaus. My issue is the you and I and other affiliates may know the difference of a room having or not having that seal. But if players start looking for that it essentially puts them at a disadvantage to rooms that decide to play the game. So I see how it could be used as leverage against good casinos..

Anyway, right on