Can you tell a poker room how many players they will get from you

[Connie Burstin]

Hi Everyone,

I am sure that many of you have been asked by a Poker operator on how many players they can get from you.

Can you really forecast a number of players that a Poker Room will get?
If you can, what are the factors that you measure to give estimates?

Cheers,

Connie Burstin

[Stephen]

Hey Connie

Good question!

I often ask affiliates this question and need to know to justify special rates etc. Obviously you do not know their conversions in general, but I would suggest that you use conversions with other rooms in a similar position as the starting point, and be realistic in your estimate.

Stephen

[Connie Burstin]

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the feedback.

- Previous conversion rates

What about if the benefits/features to players are less competitive to the ones from previous rooms?

[kushmoney]

If the last poker room you promoted you got them lets say 50 players. You may want to tell the new poker room 20 or so. Then bring them 50 players after that talk with your affiliate manager for that special rate.

[gavacho]

Yep this is a very typical question indeed.
But do not just focus on figures you get at other rooms you currently promote, but also explain where you get your traffic from, what are your plans in the short, medium or long term.
That will show your motivations and professionalism to the AM, and helps the AM to understand your business better and to respond to your needs better.

[Ridge]

I think this is a dumb question overall and show a lack of logic from the AM's. My reason is that for example I have a poker room that get 500-600 new visits daily. Some new room on merge or cake or one of the other seriously watered down networks approaches me to promote them. There is a couple big issues here:

1. Usually these poker rooms are small or medium at best (there is a big gap between FT, PS, and even party) and the rest are small fish no matter how they think of themselves. So, although I may be sending 100 players to pokerstars, 75 to fulltilt, how can I possible know how many will want to RISK signing up at a new room. So I feel I DESERVE an extra incentive if I'm going to add you to my site.

2. Poker rooms no matter what size are blinded by their sales pitch, to the point they actually start to believe its true. The fact is that most of the time these are smaller rooms with nothing really original. The best thing they usually have going is a bonus. So, the question becomes, why should >I< send you traffic and how well can you convert them?

It comes down to originality and value, which most poker rooms lack. Our job is to expose players to the new rooms, and convince them to convert or signup. After that is where 90% of poker rooms do a horrible job of converting the players. This is why we have a ton more signups than actual conversions at most rooms.

I think another issue is that AM's generally have no idea about our side of the business. They probably know very little about gaming in general and blindly think that their poker room is the next pokerstars, and in reality they will probably die in obscurity over the next couple years.

Also, let's turn this around. I think AM's ask the "how many players question" as a way to leverage affiliates, but wouldn't I be more apt to push you harder if you gave me a good deal? Do AM's really think that if they give me a better than average deal I'm going to bury them in my site somewhere? Hell no, so that tells me that these AM's have not thought things through. Generally, I think you can judge a site just by looking at it. Look at the design, content, backlinks, etc. AM's need to start doing their homework! Then they will know if they WANT to work with said affiliate and can make an informed decision.

Anyway, that's my take on it. AM's need to think things through a bit more, and think of better questions like "What is your marketing plan, where does your traffic come from, and above all else convince us affiliate that we should push you guys. I've talked to a few AM's and as soon as I was done I started writing a review and promo material for their room. That is how you make something happen.

I'd love to hear GP and double B's take on this too. These guys are a couple of the best affiliates I've came across, so I know they will have some insight and probably disagree with me some

[GR88]

Hi Guys

As an affiliate manager,It is not a question I would ever ask, as I believe its impossible for anyone to know how many players they can bring...

If you have been successful in bringing many players to other sites, then when negotiating a deal with you Affiliate Manager mention your previous success but I think a good point for all affiliates is to bring some players first then negotiate on better deals...

To reply to Randy, I was an affiliate for a number of years before moving to the other side, so do have an understanding of Affiliates which I try to work into my workings as an affiliate manager with the hope of becoming more successful...

Think this could possibly be why Randy and I get on so well maybe!!!

Colin

[Connie Burstin]

Hi,

Great feedbacks!


Cheers,

Connie Burstin

[Stephen]

I think this is a dumb question overall and show a lack of logic from the AM's. My reason is that for example I have a poker room that get 500-600 new visits daily. Some new room on merge or cake or one of the other seriously watered down networks approaches me to promote them. There is a couple big issues here:

1. Usually these poker rooms are small or medium at best (there is a big gap between FT, PS, and even party) and the rest are small fish no matter how they think of themselves. So, although I may be sending 100 players to pokerstars, 75 to fulltilt, how can I possible know how many will want to RISK signing up at a new room. So I feel I DESERVE an extra incentive if I'm going to add you to my site.

2. Poker rooms no matter what size are blinded by their sales pitch, to the point they actually start to believe its true. The fact is that most of the time these are smaller rooms with nothing really original. The best thing they usually have going is a bonus. So, the question becomes, why should >I< send you traffic and how well can you convert them?

It comes down to originality and value, which most poker rooms lack. Our job is to expose players to the new rooms, and convince them to convert or signup. After that is where 90% of poker rooms do a horrible job of converting the players. This is why we have a ton more signups than actual conversions at most rooms.

I think another issue is that AM's generally have no idea about our side of the business. They probably know very little about gaming in general and blindly think that their poker room is the next pokerstars, and in reality they will probably die in obscurity over the next couple years.

Also, let's turn this around. I think AM's ask the "how many players question" as a way to leverage affiliates, but wouldn't I be more apt to push you harder if you gave me a good deal? Do AM's really think that if they give me a better than average deal I'm going to bury them in my site somewhere? Hell no, so that tells me that these AM's have not thought things through. Generally, I think you can judge a site just by looking at it. Look at the design, content, backlinks, etc. AM's need to start doing their homework! Then they will know if they WANT to work with said affiliate and can make an informed decision.

Anyway, that's my take on it. AM's need to think things through a bit more, and think of better questions like "What is your marketing plan, where does your traffic come from, and above all else convince us affiliate that we should push you guys. I've talked to a few AM's and as soon as I was done I started writing a review and promo material for their room. That is how you make something happen.

I'd love to hear GP and double B's take on this too. These guys are a couple of the best affiliates I've came across, so I know they will have some insight and probably disagree with me some

I disagree with you Randy. The question isnt coming from an affiliate that is just saying hello, it is coming form someone that wants a special deal from the beginning. As an affiliate, you obviously believe that your site is worth more than the generic commissions, so you are simply being asked to explain why this is the case. If you cannot, then how am I supposed to justify a higher rate?

You can go forever as to whether a program needs to justify working with you or vica versa, but in the end it is about trust and a relationship. The AM is rarely ignorant, but it's always good to get a full understanding of what an affiliate is capable fo doing.

Most sites wont die over the next few years - I know Playersonly often converts better for some affiliates (not all) than both PokerStars and FTP together as all their players have accounts there. There are other smaller sites that work with some affiliates as well, and it is important to remain flexible and test to see what your readers think.

Stephen

[321]

Affiliates should be able to guestimate how many players (or whatever metric) they can bring to a cardroom based on the exposure they would give and the quality of the destination cardroom, including its promo material and its own conversion tactics. It's certainly not going to be a right on the money estimate, but a good faith estimate should be doable.

This may not be particularly important for established brands that you can test, but basically no new brand would ever get any exposure if they were to start from scratch.