Major affiliate caps

[jdwanchalk]

Being only a few months into the affiliate scene I have begun to notice something, namely in rakeback.

There are caps in place for rakeback offerings already (ie. they can't exceed 27% at FTP, 30% at AP etc. etc.)

These caps exist but they really don't. The allowance to offer DeucesCracked or PokerTracker subscriptions are the same as bumping the rakeback paid up for a few months. It is merely disguised.

Rake races? Small affiliates can't afford 100K rake races. This is another thing that demonstrates how big affiliates monopolize the rakeback industry. Why can't I just start saying "I will pay you 1% of your rakeback generated, in addition to your standard deal"? There is NO difference, it is simply written differently.

Tell me how I am wrong. If the poker sites want an even playing field they should make an even playing field, because it certainly is not right now. Same with the special bonuses some major sites are allowed.

[Ridge]

Well I can see your point, Rakeback Affiliates try and police themselves to keep caps in place as its in everyone's best interest. I am close with most of my players and they are educated enough to know that getting an extra % from some unknown affiliate is risky. There are dozens of "I'm not getting my rakeback" threads on 2+2 and other major forums.

Rakeback players for the most part are more educated than noob players, and if they decide to try and get the extra % and get burned, then lesson learned.

As for the Rake Chases, races, and freerolls. Well I see your point, but it is the affiliate putting up the extra money, not the room. I don't see how you can tell an affiliate not to give money away. I started off as a small solo RB affiliate and had to compete with the big guys, and I did fine. Since I started using Rakeupdate and can use the extra promos my conversion and SU rate has shot way up. So these methods work for affiliate AND for the poker rooms, so why would they stop it? Players are happy and affiliate partners are happy.

Again I see your point, but I'm not convinced everything has to be fair. The same is true for bid pokerlisting, pokernews, sites. They get better deposit bonuses and special freerolls etc. Again I don't have an issue with this. You can still compete for your market share just the same.

On this forum we are always talking about "offering value" and these special promos are a way to do just that. I could make the same argument that people should not give away an ebook because I don't have one, or should never run a freeroll unless I have one. It could go on and on.

Anyway, don't let affiliate being able to add value become an excuse to not succeed. Work hard, find a way to provide extra value, and stay focused.

[MJ]

Very good post Randy.

[jdwanchalk]

Let me ask you this then...

Can I offer new players $20 free for every month they generate $100 in rakeback?

There is literally NO difference between doing this and offering DeucesCracked membership if there is $100 in rakeback generated. Im just making up numbers but you know what I mean.

I can exploit sites just like they do to the smaller ones, all the while working directly with the poker sites.

So, can I offer to just pay players to sign up with me? Once one person offers $20 another will offer $25, then someone will offer $30. Then the profit margin is gone.

This is the reason that incentives should NOT be allowed. They defeat the purpose of caps entirely.

EDIT: I am motivated. My motivation is strong enough that I want to overtake the oligopolies in the rakeback niche (and yes, that is precisely what they are.)

[Chalkie]

Fundamentally it is hard to argue against the points made by jchandwalk as he is infact correct about the incentives in all honesty.

However, it seems to have been accepted that people offer gift incentives like DC etc.

In all honesty there are very many people out there that break the caps and plenty of rooms turn a blind eye, perhaps more than should

[jdwanchalk]

Fundamentally it is hard to argue against the points made by jchandwalk as he is infact correct about the incentives in all honesty.

However, it seems to have been accepted that people offer gift incentives like DC etc.

In all honesty there are very many people out there that break the caps and plenty of rooms turn a blind eye, perhaps more than should

I mean there is nothing stopping me from spending 10K on advertising at 2p2 and destroying the other sites.

"Join jdwanchalk's Rakeback and GET $20 EXTRA FOR EVERY $100 IN RAKEBACK YOU GENERATE!" People would leave the other sites left and right. Then someone would offer $25, and BOOM NO ONE MAKES MONEY.

All incentives should be stopped immediately, period. You should be allowed to offer the service of rakeback. That is all.

[Chalkie]

Ah, but have you got 10K though

What should be in this industry is not always what is, look on the bright side, at least there is some sort of cap!

[jdwanchalk]

I just went to the rakeback section of 2p2 for the first time in a long time. What is the first post I see?

"Sorry mods if this was asked before.

After a couple weeks of requesting rakeback through full tilt I got an email today confirming I can now recieve rakeback. I never signed up through an affliate.

I guess the only con of getting rakeback is that there are no rake races on rakebackpros. were compared to other sites their are. correct?

thanks"

Offered rb on FTP through rakebackpros - Rakeback and Affiliates - Poker Affiliating and Rakeback Forum


Now, do I, or other small affiliates have a snowballs chance in hell of landing this player? No, he will go where the "rake races" and free items are. This is a characteristic of monopolies or oligopolies, no other similar choices.

So, CONGRATS to raketherake, thisisthenuts, and other rakeback sites that got into a market and that most convenient of times and now disallow other sites to compete.

It is nothing short of bullshit that this is allowed. People who will defend this undoubtedly are the lucky ones who started years ago, established an unattainable edge, and don't give a shit. Hell, I can't say I would be any different, but I would understand if I wasn't allowed to bribe my players any longer.

[MPC]

Isn't this the nature of our economic system? Offer and demand vs competition? I'm not saying it's fair. I agree it's unfair. But life isn't fair. If a big player chooses to offer a 15% incentive to gain a greater portion of the marketshare and increase the bottom line by 20%, then the net gain is 5%, thanks to volume. It makes mathematical sense. If your are in a situation where you need to give a 15% as a way to avoid 20% losses from doing nothing, then that is also a 5% gain (in the sense of loosing 15% instead of 20%). If that's what it takes for you to survive, then that's what you have to do.

If you can't keep up with the competition, then you must find different ways to sell your product. If it was just about $$$, everyone would drive a KIA. There's other aspects that can make you competitive. You can't be good at everything, but you can exel at one thing. Use that strenght to attract and retain clients. It has to be something THEY value. If you can't do any of this, then your business will fail, as it should. Let someone else take your marke share if you can't deliver. Competition is good for consumers.

[jdwanchalk]

Ah, but have you got 10K though

What should be in this industry is not always what is, look on the bright side, at least there is some sort of cap!

If I had to raise 25k for this I could, but I would of course not really want to.

What I could do is start offering cash for every bit of rakeback generated. Then everyone would use my service. Eventually everyone would be doing that.

The more that I think about it, maybe rakeback is just a terrible idea for the industry as a whole.

I would absolutely LOVE the elimination of rakeback. It would allow for infinitely more fair competition. Pure rakeback sites are retailers, content sites are affiliates. What value does a rakeback site add to a user's experience? Nothing, they get people by offering stupid incentives. Their sites usually suck, but so long as their is a financial motive people will keep coming back.

Think outside of poker/gambling, do any affiliate sites offer 25% cashback on their purchases? Do the customers log in and check their cashback stats?

The answer is no (afaik), and that is the way it should be. Pure rakeback sites are not affiliates (the technicalities aside), they are selling something.