Full Tilt CPA: Awful Numbers for Everyone?

[stillshadow]

Obviously, I expected a decrease in qualified CPAs at Full Tilt after the predatory terms were introduced this month. I was naive enough to think that the effects wouldn't possibly be as severe as they have been at Stars. Unfortunately, it's been even worse. I remember our big thread a few months ago about the drop for PokerStars but I haven't seen anything similar for Full Tilt yet. Have other CPA affiliates been seeing such extreme drops in Full Tilt conversions?

The following are numbers from a few months for both Stars and Full Tilt. The percentage is of depositing players that ended up qualifying for that particular month.

PokerStars
November 2009: 64%
December 2009: 77%
NEW CPA TERMS
January 2010: 26%
February 2010: 38%
March 2010: 30%
April 2010: 42%


Full Tilt
January 2010: 50%
February 2010: 79%
March 2010: 76%
NEW CPA TERMS
April 2010: 18%

Full Tilt's conversions have been worse thus far this month than in any other previous month in my history of both programs. What has been especially pathetic is that they've managed to even "top" PokerStars for largest decrease in conversions from month-to-month with a 60% drop and a rate that is currently sitting at less than 20%!

Add insult to injury when earlier this month the PAW backend showed thousands of dollars in kickers for all previous players to soften the blow and then has it disappear in a few days.

I've always been a CPA-first affiliate with every room that offers a decent or custom rate because of the inherent uncertainty in this industry, the competition from rakeback affiliates, and the unknown value of new poker rooms.

I've historically had strong CPA numbers at both Stars and Full Tilt yet this is the first time I'm seriously considering taking revenue share from them. Unfortunately, both of the revenue share programs seem just as predatory with the highest fees in the industry. I think that Sportsbook is the only US poker room left with great CPAs, support, and no ridiculous predatory terms.

It's pretty sad that I'm making more money at second-tier rooms like PokerHost and Doyle's Room than at two of the largest poker rooms in the world when they're getting 5-10% of the traffic from me. Why does there have to be such a disconnect between the best poker rooms for players and the best programs for affiliates? It just feels wrong to promote a place like Carbon or Doyle's Room over Stars and Tilt yet it also feels just as wrong to send these places nearly-free traffic.

I'm a long-time poker affiliate who doesn't like change in affiliate programs. I've been through enough over the years with circumstances beyond our control like the UIGEA. It's frustrating when affiliate programs add to that and force me to make difficult decisions.

For all the trouble that other affiliates have had with Full Tilt over the years they've been one of my most consistent programs with good numbers and little hassle. They're really letting me down this month.

[MJ]

What's sad is the Full Tilt AM logs into PAL everyday and reads these threads yet never comments or communicates with us affiliates. What does that tell you about our "partnership"?

And yes my numbers re way down, signups and depositors way up - a lot of them will convert later but it definately sucks. I had planned AP and UB to be easy profitable replacements but that is now out the window too.

Frankly it might be a good time to retire.

[jdwanchalk]

What's sad is the Full Tilt AM logs into PAL everyday and reads these threads yet never comments or communicates with us affiliates. What does that tell you?

That they are bums. I hope Howard goes to jail. Toss FTP's support staff in jail too just for sucking.

[MJ]

That they are bums. I hope Howard goes to jail. Toss FTP's support staff in jail too just for sucking.

That's a middle school reply and probably part of the reason they don't communicate, not helpful.

[321]

That's a middle school reply and probably part of the reason they don't communicate, not helpful.

Exactly.

A big problem in this industry is a forum like this has hardly any praise for positives (like the Sportsbook comment in the original post) while there are tons of "calling out", bitching and whining posts about minor things.

There are also negative posts about major things too, which is fine, but the negativity over minor things overwhelms any positive comments. It's as if some affiliates wake up in the morning with a pickle in their mouth, or aren't allowed to use the restroom each day without being negative about something.

Opposing bad things is important, but praising good things is even more important. The lack of balance in that on forums is why cardrooms reps are droven away, and that is partly why affiliates get shittier treatment.

(Hmmm, my post and the two above should probably be removed for being off topic.)

[GregW]

For me:

Full Tilt
January 2010: 59%
February 2010: 71%
March 2010: 57%
NEW CPA TERMS
April 2010: 20%

As you say, I expected a decrease, but not one quite as large as this. I didn't cross reference with the Stars conversions decrease but the conversions at FT are definitely looking worse. This is actually quite strange considering that the new CPA requirements are around about:

• PokerStars: $45 rake needs to be generated to release the CPA.
• Full Tilt: $35 rake needs to be generated to release the CPA.

Those were the rough figures I worked out IIRC, so surprising to see FT performing so badly in comparison. However, my PokerStars conversions haven't actually been all that bad since the higher requirements, so I've got my fingers crossed that delayed (but eventual) conversions are accounting for the poor current conversion rate in the short term. We are only 2/3s of the way through the month after all.

Out of curiosity, why not consider Bodog?

[jdwanchalk]

Give me a break. Like they are going to do anything no matter what you say. Anyone who thinks talking with them or Stars is going to do anything is only kidding themselves.

[stillshadow]

Thanks for the input, Greg, and I forgot to mention Bodog. They've always been a favorite of mine from both a player and affiliate standpoint and they're looking better and better every day. They're a great alternative to the behemoths and I plan to increase their exposure even further. If they offered top-tier CPAs they would truly compete as one of my top programs.

Bodog is one of the few programs that I switched over to revenue share a couple of years ago when they were at their lowest point in terms of conversions and player payment delays. I've found their revenues to be above-average per player with some great crossover revenue from the casino.

[Georgia Poker]

Give me a break. Like they are going to do anything no matter what you say. Anyone who thinks talking with them or Stars is going to do anything is only kidding themselves.

JD is right. You folks need to get a grip (and get out from behind your keyboard more). In the real world, these programs are all about the bottom line. I know it's impacting your income but shit happens and you deal with it.

In regards to 321's reply about -

A big problem in this industry is a forum like this has hardly any praise for positives (like the Sportsbook comment in the original post) while there are tons of "calling out", bitching and whining posts about minor things.

Seriously? The AM's should only come out and play when we're kissing their ass in a thread? No, they should be active and participate in the good and the bad threads.

Need a good example of this? Look at the Best Buy Twitter deal or Comcast, they deal with the good and the (very) bad and overall have been universally applauded by peers and consumers alike for taking on this beast that's Social Media. The poker rooms could learn a lot by watching these companies.

[pokerextras]

Do bodog have a cpa?