New Posts
Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
  • Login:
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    New Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Asset management affiliates

    Hi!
    This is my first post on this forum and i hope you forgive me if I happen to be posting in the wrong forum or violating any rules in any way. I don’t think I will do anything wrong, but I also don’t know how things are done around here.
    I have a few questions i would like to ask, but first i want to give a little background.

    Background
    I worked as a pokeraffiliate back in the days when rakeback was unheard of .
    The way I worked back then was by word of mouth and by giving information on how to beat the games in the best possible way, (I was a high stakes pro for many years). It wasn’t a way to build a superbig customerbase, but those who signed up became higher stakes, high volume players: very valuable.

    I havnt been in contact with the affiliatebusiness for many years, but I now have a case where I think the affiliate way would be very interesting. Especially when it comes to pokeraffiliates. I would like to hear what you, the affiliatepros, think about it.

    Asset management business
    Me and my collegues are about to setting up an asset management business through so called “managed accounts”. Managed accounts means that a client creates an account on a brokerage firm and then connect that account to our Master account at the same broker. This means that the clients account will do exactly the same transactions as we do on the master account, but the money will never leave the customer. He or she can cash out anytime and terminate the collaboration.

    The businessmodel is just like a normal fund, where we charge a managementfee and a performancefee.
    Some rough details about how the affiliateroutine would be conducted:
    • We have to close the deal with the customer.
    • The affiliate make money maximum 5 years from when the customer deposit. Shorter if the customer withdraws before the 5 years has ended.
    • If the affiliate raises $1M and the customer keeps the money is his account for 5 years that would give the affiliate around 40-50k total for the 5 year period.
    • Payments to the affiliate will come on a monthly basis.

    Questions:
    1. Has anyone experience from working with asset management, and how was that experience?
    2. I would guess this is much more an affiliateidea where you talk to your customers personally instead of pushing traffic to a site: Is there anyone working old school like that today?
    3. Do you think it would be possible to use an already established customerbase for poker to reach out and work an asset management idea? (Level up the affiliatebusiness on existing customers)

    There are so many things I would like to ask all of you experienced poker affiliates, but hopefully we can have a good discussion here and I will get a chance to ask questions along the way.

    Thanks for the word!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    675
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    I think this is quite difficult and different from poker affiliate marketing.

    I have a finance related website in my country. While it is definitively possible to sell retirement plans, health care or mortgages online, asset management is much thougher. I've been trying for years to refer one single client to an asset management company, without success. The problem I guess is a) the amount of money needed and b) the trust needed.

    Asset management, at least in my country, only starts becoming interesting with clients with $0.5M and more. Now obviously that leaves us with a small potential market. And even if a wealthy person visits your website, that doesn't mean he or she needs some sort of asset management. And if the need is here, they would go to a company they trust. So they'd go to their bank (most offer wealth management for wealthy persons) or they'd ask someone they trust.

    I've tried several approaches, like specific content and forms where you can request a free consultation. I even designed an online questionnaire to assess its own risk profile, which you get sent by email. I even personally sent follow-up messages to hundreds of those people taking the questionnaire, without success.

    I think it's almost necessary to have a personal (face-to-face) connection to a person you want to refer to an asset management company. And here in poker affiliate marketing, I don't know the name of one single player I have ever referred.
    So I guess the best approach would be to find potential affiliates who have a large personal network and connections to wealthy persons.
    "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

  3. #3
    New Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    Strider,
    Thank you very much for your answer! Its very interesting to hear your experience on getting referals in the asset management business. I have a few questions to ask you, but first some more details on our case:

    Details on our case
    To specify even more what we do: We have built an algorithm for currency trading with a mix of game theory, AI, pattern recognition and portfoliomanagement. The predicted performance/risk is very attractive and the riskprofile is unique, meaning that its an asset management product that could be very attractive to many people. With the clear connection to how poker has evolved with the use of HUDs and bots etc, my thinking is that many pokerplayers would understand why our approach is good, which would be another sellingpoint making it easier to attract pokermoney.

    WIth that said i still think it comes down to what you say: Its all about trust and personal connections. But a good product could maybe make the sell a little easier.

    Questions:
    I really thought that there were some kind of knowing your best highvolume customers in pokeraffiliating. But maybe that was just how we worked it back in the days and that way is super old school now.
    1. Is there anyone working like that today?
    2. Where do you find affiliates with the kind of big personal networks you are talking about if you dont already know them?
    3. Do you think those kind of affiliates would be interested in the asset management affiliate business?
    4. What kind of money would you have gotten if you had succeeded on referals to the asset management you talked about?

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    675
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    From what you write, your product is not very simple to understand. An average investor doesn't really know what a performance/risk profile or what the efficient frontier is. I think it would be very hard for someone without in-depth knowlege of asset management in general and of the product to sell such a product, not to speak of the legal requirements.
    I think you should rather go another route and try to sell your product through other asset managers. They also already have a network of wealthy customers.

    In my country, the asset management fee is typically between 1.0 and 1.5% per year. I'd get 25% of that (lifetime revenue share). With another company, we also agreed on a 25% revenue share when I could find them customers for their mutual fund (which has a management fee of 0.9% or so).
    "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

  5. #5
    New Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    Thanks again for a great answer.

    If you go into detail our product is complex, but in the end for most customers its all about returns i guess. When i talk to people and say that we return equal as the stockmarket historically, with 1/3 of the risk and uncorrelated to the market, people kind of get that its good. If they wonder how, its time to go into details. What i was trying to say was that i thought that pokerplayers could relate to the statistical and AI approach, since that is how poker has developed, but i might be totally wrong on that.

    More questions:

    1. The 25% lifetime revenue, was that calculated on all deposits this client ever did or was it on the first deposit?

    2. Was it any different to try to sell a product with 1.5% managementfee compared to 0.9%?

    3. How was the referalsystem working for you. If you found a client, did you pass over the client to the fund and then they did the closure of the deal?
    (We have heard that its necessary for us to have the final word with all clients. Just to make sure an affiliate does not promise things that we cant keep, and then the client get upset for being mislead and press charges or anything like that.)

    4. From what i understood you tried to sell the asset management service to people you didnt know. How much easier do you think it would have been if you knew the clients from before?

    5. Did the assetmanagement firm or the mutual fund educated you on their products?


    I really really appriciate that you take your time to answer me on these questions. And i hear your advice on going another route. But im really stubborn, and i would really try to dig deeper to see if there is an edge in the pokercommunity still. Or at least totally understand the reasons why its not working if so.

    Thanks

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    675
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    I didn't talk to any of these potential clients. I just have a form on my website where visitors can request a free consultation through one of the two companies. Plus I offer visitors to connect them with an asset management company I trust in the email I send them (most email-addresses are generated through the risk profile analysis tool).

    So in the end, I just generate leads (which I send manually or automatically by email), and its up to the two companies to contact the leads and to either convince the lead to purchase their mutual fund or to let them do the asset management.

    As I said, I'm still trying this but I haven't had any success yet. But in my understanding the 25% revenue share is recurring and therefore based on the total assets and not on the first deposit.

    I had more success with health insurance and mortgages with a similar approach. The numbers there are much bigger (100% of adults need a health insurance in my country, and >40% of adults own a house/apartement and most of them need a mortgage, while maybe only 1% is interested in handing over their wealth to an asset management company).

    Again, I think it's very difficult to sell your product without having personal ties with the potential client. I doubt you'll find many affiliates who know wealthy poker players personally here, but maybe someone wants to join the discussion.

    Did you already set up a website? You could make a test run with Adwords.
    "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

  7. #7
    New Member
    My Status
     
    ----
     

    Add as a friend
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default

    I think im starting to get it now: most affililiates got no personal connection to their players at all. I didnt think it worked like that since it was the opposite for me when i was affiliating back in time.

    So for this to work i would need to find affiliates that actually got some kind of personal relationship to their best players, or at least got an email list so they can reach out to them. There must be some affiliates fitting that description, even if they are rare.

    Strider, you say that i problably wont find these people here: So where do i find them?

    We havnt figured out yet if its doable from a regulation point of view to sell through a website. So that is something we will have to look into more. But generally its all about personal connections and seeing people face to face and explain our strategy etc. At least in the beginning. And then it can grow from there.

    Our view of using affiliates was to be able to use their network to create the personal connection and then take it from there.
    Basically exactly what you said with yourself creating leads for the asset managent firms.


 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.5
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0