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[Mike]

I was a little all-over-the-place on that post, I realize. Trying to fit too many points into one discussion, I suppose. Maybe saying I agree 100% was a little inaccurate, as well. I was referring strictly to that one post, agreeing that:

-The US has too much power and benefiting countries turn a blind eye to it
-Israel and neighboring countries have both acted poorly towards the other
-The US's handling of Israel has been poor, especially of late and I tried to offer an example of maybe how we could have handled them better, influencing them towards peace with our "power" instead of sometimes making excuses for them or ignoring their actions.

Even though the US has too much power, I still believe that we should implement strong foreign policies that limit the ability of enemy countries to build their armies to a point where they can negatively influence the world economy on behalf of their own gain. Think, Iran threatening to block the straights of Hormuz to disrupt the world's oil supply in response to our decision to impose economic sanctions because they are threatening to build up their nuclear capabilities.

When you said "we're most likely only a matter of time away from a war with Iran.", I was agreeing with this. The first paragraph after that quote was merely a hypothetical outcome of what a full-scale war with Iran would lead to.

I think where we may disagree is on how to avoid the conflict completely. Ron Paul would have us get our military out of the middle east all together. No more troops on the ground, no more aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf, close the base in Bahrain, etc. Iran would then be free to do whatever they pleased, up to and including developing a nuclear bomb. Dr. Paul's excuse is "we have a bomb, why can't they?". I believe that to be a dangerous, irresponsible, and downright naive proposal. This isn't kindergarten and there is no concept of fair with regards to conflict. There is nowhere that says just because one country has a certain type of weapon, another country is allowed to have the same weapon. Unless, of course, you believe that we should have all of these nuclear bombs floating out there in every country that feels like they deserve one. Think, Somalia with a nuclear weapon.

We need less weapons all around and absolutely need less weapons in countries who's founding is based on things such as: convert, pay us a heathen tax, or die. Imagine if Iran had a nuclear weapon right now, would the world be better off or worse? The US has had nukes for 80 years or so and have only used them to end WWII. How do we know what another country will or won't do, especially when they say the words that they say, and why do we want to even take the chance that they won't use it?

I believe Ron Paul's philosophy would lead to further conflict down the road, a conflict in which we would not have the upper-hand.

[pokerprop]

Iran doing much with a nuclear weapons is pure suicide, I don't think their plans involve atomic bombs. They're entirely surrounded by nuclear attack potential themselves and pretty much every nation holding these is holding them for that purpose. Israel having nuclear weapons is as great of a threat and they already have them as does Pakistan. Iran got pissed at the IAEA which was understandable given all the circumstances and quickly backed off that position. I guess why does US need the upper hand? Iran posses very little threat to us, but it seems there has been posturing forever in order to justify an eventual war with Iran. George Bush went as far to say preemptive nuclear attack against Iran was not off the table.

This all just appears so insane. Hezbollah was created as a resistance to Israeli invasion of Lebanon. It's a major political party, with tons of support yet is classified by the US and their friends Israel, United Kingdom, Australia, and Canada as a terrorist organization (it LOL truly is!! like that's the official word). It shouldn't take too many history lesson to know why they hate Israel. The two were at war for like 25 years with Israel occupying their land for the bulk of it. That one might even make sense, just sayin' understanding why they want to attack Israel makes complete sense. So if you have military and don't like Israel you are a threat, a terrorist and need to be invaded. basically explains it.

I guess the way I look at it is sometimes people just have to die fighting for what they think is right. There is major conflicts "internally" in many of these nations and it's up to them within their own borders to sort it out. Freedom is never something won with a gun. You can't touch freedom, can't see, can't taste it, can't smell it. It's a state of mind that merely involves the decision to be free. Your nation is only as great as you yourself make it, and the only freedoms you can ever truly have are those which you've already long since decided you're undoubtedly willing to defend. That's way I see it anyways and from my perspective it's going to be each nations own military and opposing insurgents to sort it all out with their own issues. Religions, taxes, politics, laws, crimes against humanity, the list goes on and on. Civil war is between those two sides. Because other nations are going to do the same, if you somehow have a way to finance a side of some other nations revolutions or defense (whichever most benefits your nation should they gain or remain in control), I suppose okay go for it, but that shouldn't come from corporate or personal income tax imo. Perhaps a voluntary international defense fund (check a box on corporate and personal filings), or added taxes on guns or some other product no one is forced to buy.

Everything solved now except for the most difficult parts. The challenge comes in is every time someone commits a crime across borders it's attributed to his nation. There is little to no distinction between government action, military action, action by a sect and just some dude with a gun. That's where it all gets complex. From here the one thing clear which every nation should agree is you need stay within your borders. However, how do implement that when the US is occupying all sorts of countries? The need to occupy all sorts of countries comes from the cross border attacks. This is where it all gets complex. How do you distinguish between a group of 3,000 member cult attacking and a nation attacking. If all is as appears then these challenges here are the only things truly keeping nations at war with other nations. Because if it wasn't for this problem we could all agree, act outside your borders and your ass is getting blown up.

From my perspective though all is most likely not as it appears. Those with enough money to feed and clothe all 6 billion people in world are heavily behind Israel, and heavily influential in US banking, and media that helps determine elections. I won't pretend to understand this or even understand this video but still find it worth watching (sincerely I know nothing about this guy at all - I watched this video several months ago).



Hezbollah leaders now that they're in power have been attempting to differentiate between Jews and Zionists, and says the two terms often get merged, but it is Zionists they hate. Israel and not jews. In any case it is a religious war from our perspective. But Israel was given part of Palestine's land escalating a battle that had started millenniums earlier to new heights. We gave them tanks, bombs and nuclear weapons. Of course most Muslims disagreed with taking that land and members of an extreme sect attempted various assassinations. Perhaps in response in response or perhaps aggressor this escalated to a hate war or epic proportions, that went as far as raping each other's wife's and killing each others children (very rarely on Israel's land as that's much better protected). Jews not willing to fight for and defend Israel were about as heavily persecuted by their own nation as Christians are from time to time in Muslim states, many jews left Israel fearing their safety over their stance of peace. And this where we're at. Israel has nuclear weapons, Israel committed numerous hate crimes against other nations (perhaps started by retaliation, I don't know) and nations who have refused from day one to recognized Israel as a state wants them wiped off the map. This does not in all cases mean violence - though there is no shortage of that from all sides. On the US side we're only fed to hate the enemy, and that's who they decide the enemy is.

To be incredibly clear here at times earlier in this thread I attempted humor and over exaggerated positions to prove a point. There many issues my mind is nowhere close to made up on, and so few things I really understand. There's not a single website, person, political group, activist party or anything else I read, listen to, or watch on a regular basis. I have no religion, I'm not atheist, and there is probably no one person in the world that shares my exact beliefs (which are all theories at best, I have no strong religious beliefs). In fact regarding the former, I hate almost every website, radio host, news station etc, because they lack any sort of objectivity which is something I value. It is so often when I get involved in conversations at other forums I see several people talking the same, speaking the same things, giving the same quotes, or just these slight little oddities that they have to be picking this all up from the same source. To the best on my knowledge I don't fit that mold (though like everyone, I probably do in some spots). I try to research and hear both sides at some point and then generally become strong on my positions for certain issues until I notice I have emotion. Generally anytime i have emotion it's a clue to wait check this out, why do I feel this way etc, and decide okay that's intellectual position as well, or wow I need to let that go. Point being I routinely make sure I'm the one choosing my own beliefs. So anyways my purpose in this thread has no secret agendas. I truly and sincerely see little difference from either side is my primary point.

Additionally, I don't want to bomb Iran. I want my president to sit down with their president and see how we can work this all out. If he's afraid, he can send me a PM. I'd be more than happy to sit down on his behalf.

[pokerprop]

Young girl killed by Barack Obama never seen it coming



It's illegal for me to suggest this, but you live with the same convictions I do check out wartaxboycott.org. War only exist so long as there are soldiers to pull the trigger, and money to buy guns. Please consider stopping paying for murder and stop teaching kids becoming a US soldier is a noble thing (sorry it theory it might be but in current practice it most certainly is not). I look forward to a future generation that actually gives a fuck and spends more time fighting against war then they do fighting wars.

Ron Paul or anarchy 2012!

If you manage to watch the video pauses at the end, pause the image of that young child's dead body, stop and think. How much sense does this make? Seriously, does this make any sense? How in the world does this make sense?

[ak]

Lets honor America especially the brave men and woman serving our nation across the world. They have fought, killed, and died in protecting your freedoms. They have fought to give even radical types of views their right of expression sorta like what we see in this thread or even those like Fred Phelps of the westboro baptist church. Although full of sin and disgusting antics it goes to show what we as Americans and god believe in. Every human deserves certain rights even if you disagree with them.



God Bless America!!!!

[pokerworx]

You seem like such a patriot, im sure the navy, marines or army would gladly accept your enlisting.

[ak]

I was offered to reenlist and get some additional training to defuse deadly roadside bombs in Afghanistan. I kindly declined as I did my time in the 25th Infantry Division during an active time of war. The 25th Infantry Division is recognized for the first successful free democratic elections in Afghanistan on 9 October 2004. One of the missions of the 25th Infantry Division was to track down insurgent Taliban and Al-Qaeda members in the mountainous terrain of Afghanistan. You can read more information on this here.

Yes, I'm a veteran and proud to be one thanks for the concern.

[wjb316]

OWNED

[AceHigh Pino]

OWNED

Just for AK, too :P

[pokerworx]

I concur but the post previous to mine was:

[AceHigh Pino]

I concur but the post previous to mine was:

You've concurred that you don't like America, sweeeet -- defo a proper way to show your respect regardless to someone who served in the military brudda. Despite anyone's views on the USA and how things are run here, implying that someone's love for their country is "horseshit" is never really the right way to get your point across...

Cool post though man...godspeed