Turning Stone Trip Report

[jdwanchalk]

I thought some would be interested in this, so here it is.

Turning Stone Casino in Verona, NY is in the middle of NOWHERE. I didn't even spot a fast food restaurant within 10 miles. I made the drive for a weekend trip because the minimum age is 18 (I am 19). Otherwise I would just be in Atlantic City every weekend/day.

I got there on Saturday and checked in at the hotel. I called ahead to join the waiting list so I could get in a game upon arrival. Once I was at the poker room I asked to see where I stood on the waiting lists. 1/2 ($200 max) had an open seat, but 2/5 ($500 max) was a long wait. I sat at 1/2 hoping for a 2/5 seat to open.

I made about $290 early on in the first session at 1/2. Then I lost with QQ v KK aipf in a $500ish pot. Then I had KK lose to Q8 when the guy turned two pair, that was another $300ish pot. Ended up down $335 on the first day and called it quits. I tried to get on 2/5 waiting list, but it was 1am and they said it would be a few hours. Eh, I called it a day.

On Sunday I called way ahead for the 2/5 game. They didn't run anything higher than 2/5, otherwise I would have looked for 5/10. I had a seat after a brief wait and was sitting with what appeared to be a few regulars and some other clowns.

Interesting hand took place about 30 minutes into the session. I have Ad Kd in MP. Guy limps to my right. I raise to $25. Small blind and limper call.

Flop is 2d 4s 5d. They both check to me and I check back with the nfd and sd (plus AK high). The turn is 9s. The small blind leads for $55. The limper raises to $140. I thought for a minute and shoved ($600ish stack at this point).

The small blind folded as I was assuming he would, but the limper thought for a little and called. The plan was to force folds from both, but I had a ton of equity no matter what the result was. I was still drawing to a 3 or any diamond, with the outside chance than an A or K would be good.

We head to the river, it is a blank, the 7c. I said to the other player, "Well, I guess you win," and flip over AK high. He slowly puts his cards in the muck and I win a 1k or so pot. I am sure he had either a spade draw or a worse diamond draw, which is part of why I shove in that spot, to maximize my equity.

I ended up making $800 or so more at 2/5 before I left to watch the hockey game.

I played 1/2 again that night and made an additional $240, again a 2/5 game was tough to find.

I really liked the card room, the dealers, and the staff as a whole. There are lots of good places to eat within the casino and it was generally easy to navigate. I would definitely recommend visiting if you happen to be in the middle of nowhere NY.

I ended up making a little over 1k profit when all was said and done, I should have made more, but I will take it considering how rough the first day was.

Next trip report will probably be the Hard Rock in Florida (18 min age, but $100 max buy in at all limits????) or some casino in Austria or Italy.

[pokeraussie]

any reason why you didn't cbet the Ad Kd hand?

[jdwanchalk]

any reason why you didn't cbet the Ad Kd hand?

Because the primary purpose of a continuation bet is to fold out stronger hands or to force folds when I don't want to see another street. I was sure I had the best hand. If I bet and get raised I will be forced to shove with virtually no fold equity and will be behind.

If one of the other players has a set or a pair they will often bet the turn. If I hit a diamond or A/K I will get paid off, to one extent or another. Worst case scenario is they lead turn either in an attempt to steal the pot or extract value, in which case I can just shove and maximize my fold equity while leaving myself with tons of outs (as the hand did end up playing out).

[pokeraussie]

Interesting, not the way I would have played it, but I don't know what the table dynamics were like. You also continuation bet for value, and because it's such a good flop for you, why wouldn't you want to build a pot on the flop? You are rarely getting folds when you make a cbet with this type of flop, so even though you know you more then likely have the best hand you won't make them fold. Anyway, I just found the hand interesting. I shouldn't really turn a trip report into a hand analysis thread lol.

[themike537]

I go to TurningStone all the time, did you hit Rodesios (sp)? We always crush that place when we go.

[jdwanchalk]

Interesting, not the way I would have played it, but I don't know what the table dynamics were like. You also continuation bet for value, and because it's such a good flop for you, why wouldn't you want to build a pot on the flop? You are rarely getting folds when you make a cbet with this type of flop, so even though you know you more then likely have the best hand you won't make them fold. Anyway, I just found the hand interesting. I shouldn't really turn a trip report into a hand analysis thread lol.

I don't think you understand. If I bet and get it all in I am flipping a coin at best. That drains all of the value from my hand. If I bet and get a fold I still miss out on tons of value. Those are the two likely outcomes when I c-bet in that spot, neither of them are desirable.

[jdwanchalk]

I go to TurningStone all the time, did you hit Rodesios (sp)? We always crush that place when we go.

We stopped at some place where we ordered a pizza, I ate at some Italian place in the casino, and that is about all. I might have went to it if it was the Italian place I mentioned, not sure of the name of anything.

[themike537]

Ah no its a Brazilian place that brings around like ten different kinds of meats... you keep going til you explode haha.

[pokeraussie]

I don't think you understand. If I bet and get it all in I am flipping a coin at best. That drains all of the value from my hand. If I bet and get a fold I still miss out on tons of value. Those are the two likely outcomes when I c-bet in that spot, neither of them are desirable.

I understand completely. I just think you are overestimating a fold in this spot, players are just never folding on low card flops, and I also think you will get it all in with a lot more then 50% equity when villian has an open ender, overpair, etc. You have a HUGE hand here.

By your definition of a cbet, you are only cbetting as a bluff or with medium strength hands, which is really exploitable btw.

[jdwanchalk]

I understand completely. I just think you are overestimating a fold in this spot, players are just never folding on low card flops, and I also think you will get it all in with a lot more then 50% equity when villian has an open ender, overpair, etc. You have a HUGE hand here.

By your definition of a cbet, you are only cbetting as a bluff or with medium strength hands, which is really exploitable btw.

Again, you totally missed the point.