Tips for RakeBack deals

[tiltfish]

You mean after players Rakeback/Valueback/(what ever) you are only getting 3-5% of commissions (on FullTilt?)?

If this was the questions answer is this: What about getting great deals to some of the main networks (micro,boss,ongame,entraction,cake,Ipoker) and you can have way more %%% by yourself.
If you are only getting 3-5% of commissions by promoting one of those networks you are working with to low deals and should try to find better ones. Giving "too good" deals to your players could be also the problem. Would still say more likely your low deals, because the markets are tougt and players knows pretty well what they should recieve and most of the cases are asking/excpecting it.

There are many affiliates here promoting their sites to a US audience. Sure, they can offer Boss Media, Entraction etc, but what's the point if their customers can't play there? They don't really have that many options beside FTP and Pokerstars. Who would have promoted AP/UB if there was more alternatives?

You also have to remember that most networks has regulations about affiliate commission. In your example you wrote about a 2k grinder leaving you 15% commission besides 40% rb. Everleaf is the only network that allow these kind of deals as far as I know. It's strictly forbidden to offer a cut from your commission to your players in most cases.

[MR.Bluff]

There are many affiliates here promoting their sites to a US audience. Sure, they can offer Boss Media, Entraction etc, but what's the point if their customers can't play there? They don't really have that many options beside FTP and Pokerstars. Who would have promoted AP/UB if there was more alternatives?

You also have to remember that most networks has regulations about affiliate commission. In your example you wrote about a 2k grinder leaving you 15% commission besides 40% rb. Everleaf is the only network that allow these kind of deals as far as I know. It's strictly forbidden to offer a cut from your commission to your players in most cases.

Yeah, didnt tought it about that side. For US affis there is also another solutions. What about Cake Network? If you know right persons/have a good connections you could get deal up to 55-60%. and then its 22-27% of commissions just for you! Even the site/network dont have that strong brand than FTP or Stars, its still worth to try because of way better commissions + player will also get 33% of rakeback, that should but them to thinking about this site.

TiltFish you are also from Scandinavia (Sweden),right? Poker have a really strong position here and all most everyone had tried it at least once. Do you know a single 2k+ raker that is playing just for normal 30% deal (or even without it on Ongame & Ipoker)? I know loads of real players (+2k rakers) and mabye 1% of them are playing just for normal deals. They know their value and understund the situation that they will get a good deal somewhere.

I know that this is major problem in poker scene. In my opinion its because of poker-rooms. Even big sites are agreeing that their affis could offer "valuable deals" under the table in case of need. So they are basicly cutting their own leg.
What can you do?

[tiltfish]

Yeah, didnt tought it about that side. For US affis there is also another solutions. What about Cake Network? If you know right persons/have a good connections you could get deal up to 55-60%. and then its 22-27% of commissions just for you! Even the site/network dont have that strong brand than FTP or Stars, its still worth to try because of way better commissions + player will also get 33% of rakeback, that should but them to thinking about this site.

TiltFish you are also from Scandinavia (Sweden),right? Poker have a really strong position here and all most everyone had tried it at least once. Do you know a single 2k+ raker that is playing just for normal 30% deal (or even without it on Ongame & Ipoker)? I know loads of real players (+2k rakers) and mabye 1% of them are playing just for normal deals. They know their value and understund the situation that they will get a good deal somewhere.

I know that this is major problem in poker scene. In my opinion its because of poker-rooms. Even big sites are agreeing that their affis could offer "valuable deals" under the table in case of need. So they are basicly cutting their own leg.
What can you do?

I agree with you. It's not easy to find highraking customers willing to play with standard deals. I didn't to it myself when I played midstakes so I'm kind of a hippocrite. It's hard to beat the games when they get tougher and the rake still can be up to 10BB/100.

But I don't think you are thinking long term if you are offering under the table deals. It's a high risk business that indeed can be very profitable, but you can lose it all in a week. Those players are probably more savvy than others. If they get a 5% higher deal somewhere else, they will be gone. You might also lose every player if you get caught offering prohibited deals.

[MR.Bluff]

I agree with you. It's not easy to find highraking customers willing to play with standard deals. I didn't to it myself when I played midstakes so I'm kind of a hippocrite. It's hard to beat the games when they get tougher and the rake still can be up to 10BB/100.

But I don't think you are thinking long term if you are offering under the table deals. It's a high risk business that indeed can be very profitable, but you can lose it all in a week. Those players are probably more savvy than others. If they get a 5% higher deal somewhere else, they will be gone. You might also lose every player if you get caught offering prohibited deals.

I dissagree with you. Im indeed thinking this business in long term. Here are my arguments.

Problems you are facing when dealing with "under the table deals":

1. Savvy players who are moving 24/7 by looking the best deal.
Answer: At my first post Im telling many ways how you could connect your players more to you.
few examples:
* Remember them on their b-days
* Talk with them weekly on msn/fb ..what ever
* Care about them.
..I have some players under me who knows for sure they could get 2-5% better deal from somewhere els (exmp on 2+2). Even for high volume players its not all about %%%. Its also about customercare service and that they feel safety under you. They dont need to worry if their account would be frozen or will he get for sure the %rb that was promised. Keep the word and understund the value of your players!

Would say your big volume players with a normal deal would be gone as fast as they understund his value. So you are not getting those for long term. Revise me if im wrong?

2. Loosing the deal.
* I would never ever offer my deals on forums,fb or anywhere that im not sure who im offering it. Only work with trustworthy players. Most of cases Im talking details of the deals on phone/skype.
*Im working with sub-affis that I know 110%. Had meet them personally and they know how to handle this kind of things.
* For the player you are not 100% sure its big +EV in long term to leave him/her without a deal.
* Basicly: Avoid the risks and handle thinks carefully.

To be caught for offering "under the taple deals" had never happened to me.


Some other tips that could help you with this:
* Work with diferent super-affis/sites so then the risk will be decentralize. In case of problem (payment is late, stats are late, you dont feel the site/affi is trustworhy or you get caught by offering too good deals) you will only lose 5-10% of your incomes. So there is not a change to "lose everything in a wee".
* Forget those forums, they will give you way more shit than $$$
* be carefully,carefully and CAREFULLY.

As I have told before I know that this is against networks rules. But like I said what can you do, on the business where sites make this possible. Go along with the river or sink?

Best Regards

Mr. Bluff

[tiltfish]

Ok, excellent customer service can work on savvy players, but there are still so many risks with offering under the table deals. Even if you don't get caught offering "illegal" deals, some other affilaite promoting the same room might be. I can assure you that the poker room don't want to pay those fines many times.

Some would probably say that it is unethical marketing. How do you attract new players when you can't advertise your deals in public? Pokerstrategy would most likely call you a cannibalistic affiliate (Article - Underlying Flaws of Affiliate Rakeback)

[MR.Bluff]

Ok, excellent customer service can work on savvy players, but there are still so many risks with offering under the table deals. Even if you don't get caught offering "illegal" deals, some other affilaite promoting the same room might be. I can assure you that the poker room don't want to pay those fines many times.

Some would probably say that it is unethical marketing. How do you attract new players when you can't advertise your deals in public? Pokerstrategy would most likely call you a cannibalistic affiliate (Article - Underlying Flaws of Affiliate Rakeback)

First of all really great article. One of the best for a little while. Here is another good one that have same good points about the "atm situation": http://www.ongamenetwork.com/wp-cont...yerValue_L.pdf

How Im promoting my deals:
Excacly the same way that everyone els does. On the web-site (fb,twitter etc) with legal deals that network allows me to do. They are converting well. Had even some promotions that Im offering free poker books for new players. So it will encourage them to start learn more about this game.

Illegal deals:
Im promoting "under the taple deals" mainly to high volume rakers. This are the players who are already playing with "illegaly" deals and would never play with just 30% deal.
And as I said before Im only offering this deals to players that are trustworthy. So could you explain me whats are so called "big risks" then? Also if some other affis will be caught it would not efect too much on others ,specially in case of big sites.


Whole point of this thread:
Why I started this thread was to give some points and tips for affiliates who are finding hard to be in rakeback business. Rakeback competition is really tought indeed. On my first post I was giving tips that you can use instead of just giving few per cent higher rakeback. By using those you can make your customers feel valuable and happy to play under you (=boosting your brand). So your not just offering high rakeback deal, you are offering VIP consulting and service.


"Atm Situation":
I agree with you that "Situation is Okey...everything is fckd up". But if you look it on big picture what affiliate can do on this? Networks are making the rules how good deals you can offer --> poker sites are not giving a shit about that. I know that mainly all the big sites at Entraction, Ipoker, Ongame and Boss are allowing their affiliates to deal with "under the taple deals". Im working with many of those and of course I had agreed with their representative about the methods Im working with big players. Many of those sites even encourage their affis to get this high volume players. " If I would raise your commission-rate a bit you could offer better deals and mabye get way more traffic to us?".

If im not offering good rakeback deal to mid/high stake player, someone els will do it for sure. So should I throw away thousands of euros monthly incomes just because someone is saying that its unethical? Would say its not so unethical when there is at least hundreds of affis doing this and everyone know the situation. There is not a word as "fairplay" in any industry of business.

In business its all about money and when there is change to do it this way there will be rakeback affiliates. So this problem cant be solve by behavior of affiliates. The weak link of this situation is connection between networks and sites. Problems should be fix on top of the pyramid and then it can work on lower steps as well. Before that there is not much to do.

Situation is what it is ..Im still sleeping my nights well


Cheers

MR.Bluff