What happens to casino revenues when subbing off a rakeback deal?

[Ridge]

I'm not sure what you are asking exactly, but let me try and explain it another way.

Randy is a big affiliate that allows sub affiliates use trackers on my accounts - This is how PAS, RU, etc work

Randy makes 50k this month - Randy's sub gets hit by a casino for 20k - The sub only made 10k for the month - So obviously the sub gets nothing, but the 10k is actually deducted from the "master account" -

Now most of the time you can expect a casino player to dump most or all of it back, but I have seen it get worse, so let's say next month it gets worse. The master account is losing and losing with little prospect of getting much back anytime soon.

Also all the while the sub is getting nothing because they are too far in the hole.

Like I said though, we do allow subs to get casino earnings if the details have been hammered out. But most of the time its just nto worth it to us and we will just ask that you use your own account. As long as everything is upfront, then its never been an issue.

But this year I saw a major affiliate get hit with 80k from a casino, they only usually made 20k a month. The thought was, well they will lose it back no biggie. It got WORSE and we had to eat the cost or else the affiliate's business was done for.

Dunno if that makes sense, but the world of sub affiliate partners has some quirks, and usually is a good symbiotic relationship, but when casino's get involved it can get very bad.

[Chalkie]

Sorry, i didn't make my point clear, i was not looking for an explanation regarding how losses can be of a destructive nature.

My question really was in reference to people working with PAS, RU etc, with regards to casino and other disciplines being included in the equation.

This is a tricky one, RU will give profit and loss from Casino activities if requested. I know of twice this year we saw someone on this plan get hit for 50k+ which wiped out months of revenue from the poker side of things.

So as long as you understand the risk that you could make 20k from poker one month, and in the same month has someone hit 30k playing casino = You getting nothing at best, or if there is carry over being down 10k.

Many times especially with sub partners, they like the idea of gain, but it can kill a business easily if you get hit with a large loss.

When dealing with a program that offers cross promotion it appears that you are saying that as a default PAS/RU etc affiliates are not paid on the other verticals. That they are only paid on these extras if they request it, you make a good point against wanting to be paid on the extras due to the negative scenario.

Now forgive me, however, surely if the sub can request it as part of their deal, then the master has it as standard.

So my question (eventually) is why is it an extra as opposed to a std?

If the likes of PAS/RU would lose out overall why would it not be default? I can only see two reasons, 1 it really is in place to give protection to the subs or 2 it is very financially beneficial not to pay the extras.

Disclaimer: using the names of PAS/RU when this question is in reference to all organisations in the same niche.

[Ridge]

Ah gotcha, yeah you can have trackers on almost any poker/casino site that will not include casino, spots, etc.

I agree that this needs to be looked at more, its a weird situation and has so many potential issues. Also you have to consider PAS, RU, RTR, etc have been around a lot longer than most of the poker/casino mix sites. So I'm guessing it hasn't been looked at in a while.

[pokerprop]

back in the old days, I traded a lot of casino revenue for 100% poker deals. Give me all the money from poker, you keep all the money for casinos. At networked sites it was often 70% deal because they were paying network fees and other expenses. at the very big sites I'd get at least 50%. In fact I think by late 2005 I was getting at least 50% rev share from every site I promoted and was marketing 40 or so sites.

[herd]

On my deals, I try to get casino play stopped for my players. IF you have a some big solid euro players, who then go and put down 1000 EURO on a USD blackjack game.. and hit it big 500 here, 500 there over a month. It does hurt.

It did kill my earnings and RB payments for players for a couple of months - something I didnt like.

[leporello]

Different strokes for different folks. This month UB bj players have made 25x our UB poker revenues.

[pokerworx]

Different strokes for different folks. This month UB bj players have made 25x our UB poker revenues.

Did they get rakeback for the casino games they paid Leporello? I cant seem to find an answer to that anywhere.

[leporello]

No afaik they dont get rb for casino play, certainly not from us