Thinking about jumping into the rakeback market

[kushmoney]

I am sure most of you know I am a total non-rakeback affiliate. However, I have been thinking about adding at least one rakeback site to my network. With that being said, I have a few questions.

List of business questions
1. What are the basic things I should know about rakeback?

2. What's the average investment you make per site?

3. What's the average conversion rate?

4. What's the average income rate per player on a monthly bases?

5. How long did it take you to sign up your first player?

For those that know me, you know I take business very seriously. However, I love to laugh so here's a few silly questions to lighten the mood from all the drama around here lately.

1. Why haven't I already jump into the rakeback market?

2. Why haven't I bought you a beer yet?

3. Why am I asking you so many questions?

Thank you all for answering my questions. (yes, even the off topic ones)

[pokerextras]

I'll have a go at answering your questions. 1. Rakeback customers are savvy. They know what they want and generally shop around for the best deal. You can't depend on serps to get you sign ups, as there'll always be a rakeback site on page 1 for every rakeback term offering extra races and freerolls etc. If you can't match the deals, you're dead. 2. In terms of time to offer support and payment facilities, and link building outsourcing etc, alot more than bonus sites. 3. Around 2% for sign ups. They don't always play for real money though, so probably 1% active. 4. Per active player, around $50 average profit. Only around 50% of my organic sign ups ever play though, and in my experience, organic serp sign ups have a far lower value. Maybe $20 per month profit on average. 5. About a week.

[kushmoney]

Thanks for answering my questions. From your answers, I have another question.

Since you don't relay on search traffic. What other ways to market rakeback?

[pokerextras]

When i started out, i was offering exclusive kickback deals on sites that savvy, pso, etc didn't have. I done well in regards to sign ups, and built personal relationships with all of the players and converted them to rakeback. I was lucky enough to get a few danish and dutch players who referred all their friends to me, who in turn referred their friends. These guys are my big rakers. I haven't, to this day, got a decent raker from google.

[kushmoney]

When i started out, i was offering exclusive kickback deals on sites that savvy, pso, etc didn't have. I done well in regards to sign ups, and built personal relationships with all of the players and converted them to rakeback. I was lucky enough to get a few danish and dutch players who referred all their friends to me, who in turn referred their friends. These guys are my big rakers. I haven't, to this day, got a decent raker from google.

Great tips. Here's what I get from your statement.

1. Focus on smaller poker rooms
2. Build a relationship with my players
3. Don't only focus on the US market

I think that's really good sound advice.

[pokerextras]

If any new rakeback affiliates can only focus on one thing, it definately should be to build personal relationships as much as possible with your players. Not only does it keep them loyal, but referrals are the best players that you'll get.

[MJ]

It's so true what others have said about rakeback players being savvy, but I still feel like there is an underexposed market in introducing rakeback players to casual players who haven't heard of it - especially since none of us can out compete giant providers like RTR for shoppers anyways.

Good luck if you jump in, I'm getting back into that game myself soon.

[jdwanchalk]

You can't depend on serps to get you sign ups, as there'll always be a rakeback site on page 1 for every rakeback term offering extra races and freerolls etc. If you can't match the deals, you're dead.

Completely wrong and a major misconception. Belonging to the "cheat the system" places that offer rake races and other prizes will only end up cutting your bottom line in the long run.

Offer direct rakeback, there is literally no need for an outside site helping you with rakeback.

It is laughable that anyone thinks a sizable amount of new rakeback signups are going to care (if they even know) about the prizes and rake races and crap that people offer.


The big players will go to the long standing sites, so your odds are slim of landing major players, or they won't be big players initially anyway.

[pokerextras]

Completely wrong and a major misconception. Belonging to the "cheat the system" places that offer rake races and other prizes will only end up cutting your bottom line in the long run.

Offer direct rakeback, there is literally no need for an outside site helping you with rakeback.

It is laughable that anyone thinks a sizable amount of new rakeback signups are going to care (if they even know) about the prizes and rake races and crap that people offer.


The big players will go to the long standing sites, so your odds are slim of landing major players, or they won't be big players initially anyway.

I know that this is a personal crusade of yours jd so i won't start the whole thing again, but i'm page one for rakeback and other related terms, and i know for a fact that players will always sign up at rtr over my sites when they join tilt, ub, cake etc, because they have the best races. On the other hand, i get a disproportionally high amount of sign ups at the smaller networks verses bigger ones due to my high value chases. To say that they don't matter couldn't be further from the truth.

[kushmoney]

MJ & JD can you guys answer my questions? I think it will be helpful to me and others.