Optimizing Anchor Text to rank well for 2 phrases - Discussion

[addaminsane]

I have a question and scenario for some of you guys who've been running poker sites and building links for a while.

How flexible can you be with anchor text when -- You want to target 1 keyword phrase, but think it would be nice to target 2 in 1?

SCENARIO

In the scenario my main goal is to optimize anchor text for "texas holdem", however, i think it would also be great to be optimized for "texas holdem online". If i can optimize for both "texas holdem" and "texas holdem online" by primarily using "texas holdem online" for anchor text then i will.

However, since "texas holdem" is my main target, i will simply use "texas holdem" for anchor text if it means that it will cause me to rank better for "texas holdem" then using "texas holdem online" will....

...If i focus on getting anchor text for "texas holdem online" will it also optimize me for "texas holdem"?...or should i just stick with "texas holdem" for anchor text...since that is the ultimate keyword i want to target in this scenario.

This scenario is assuming that i own texasholdem.tld and on the main page i am highly optimized for "texas holdem online" with headers and keyword density...

interested in hearing yous guys's thoughts. Thanks.

[scrawnybob]

I think (probably will get corrected) that now adays your far better trying to optimise for keywords by also working on several derivatives (I used to try to do this anyway) but logic is that people are not likely to naturally link to you pages 100% with the anchor text you would "really like" therefore you shoud try to let or encourage natural linking

therefore in your example you should encourage at least all 3 of your keyword variations and I would be tempted to throw a few more very natural ones in like say "poker rules for texas holdem" or even longer

quite what ratio you would do this at is up to you but IMHO the days of only looking for and cultivating exact match links is going - not sure but I get the feeling google is looking at link profiles much more ... and how likely is it to have a very high percentage of one anchor text ? if that page is "genuinely" able to get those links google etc would rightly expect to see x % of rubbish and not "helpful" link anchor texts like even "here" or something nearly useful like "texas holdem stuff good for playing online"

also I think its fair to say if your getting better ranking for 3 word string then that is going to help your 1 or 2 word string somewhat too

RR will tell you to concentrate on more content etc that will attract 100% genuine random and natural links (which is right) - if possible avoid the temptation to over manufacture links or at least mix them up

thats my take on things but others may disagree and feel aquiring alot of links etc still does well - if you have a bomb proof site you probably can still use the old ways and get away with it

but if you have a new or a middle strength site I think its either too dangerous to risk something that is half decent you've built up and dont want to go backwards on OR if its new then you simply wouldnt have that kind of natural link magnet-ness out the gate

hope thats a help
cheers scrawnybob

ps. dont think targeting "texas holdem" just on linking will cut it - for such a competitive term against alot of established sites either targeting that term or unintentionally ranking strongly for it you going to have your work cut our, I think its in the same realms as "online poker"

[addaminsane]

very good information thank you. i think this is without a doubt the best webmaster forum i've been on. .

Also, the texas holdem keyword is purely for the scenario. I think the natural linking makes alot of sense and is good advice.

To further clarify the question I was mainly wandering if "texas holdem online" would have the same power for "texas holdem" serps as "texas holdem" anchor text would.

[pokerextras]

In my experience you have to have anchors with the exact phrase that you're targeting to rank for it. For example, i've ranked number 1 for "x network rakeback" for a while but nowhere for "x rakeback" (the same phrase without the word network in the middle) as all of the links said "x network rakeback". I had to get backlinks with "x rakeback" as anchor to rank for it. The fact that its words were included in "x network rakeback didn't help at all".

[WhitePorcelain]

Honestly Adam, I recommend staying away from those keywords. It is obvious that the terms you are looking to win are HUGE terms. Most of your traffic/money is going to come from long tail keywords. If I am incorrect, please, someone correct me so I don't continue to think in this incorrect mindset. I think instead you should be optimizing for something along the lines of maybe the long tailed "winning texas hold em" keywords.

This requires the same content that would be needed for "texas hold em online" etc but would be much easier to rank (rank well) for these terms which will result in more traffic which normally results in more conversions.

I know this isn't anything relevant to anchor text, but hopefully it helps you to make all kinds of money. If so then you owe me an e-coffee haha! Best of luck to you and your site

[GottaTryIt]

Honestly Adam, I recommend staying away from those keywords. It is obvious that the terms you are looking to win are HUGE terms. Most of your traffic/money is going to come from long tail keywords. If I am incorrect, please, someone correct me so I don't continue to think in this incorrect mindset. I think instead you should be optimizing for something along the lines of maybe the long tailed "winning texas hold em" keywords.

This requires the same content that would be needed for "texas hold em online" etc but would be much easier to rank (rank well) for these terms which will result in more traffic which normally results in more conversions.

I know this isn't anything relevant to anchor text, but hopefully it helps you to make all kinds of money. If so then you owe me an e-coffee haha! Best of luck to you and your site

I think the word "Scenario" meant it was a scenario and not the real keywords he's targeting.

I also beleive google gets suspicious if all or the majority of anchor text links have the same words/phrase, it just does not look natural and could bring a penalty even if nothing untoward has been done.

I recently build a mini site targeting a bonus code, the site is let's, say BigBobsBonusCode.com and most of the links i got are a match for the exact domain name. After a while it was ranking 7th for the term but 2nd for Big Bobs Bonus which was just as competative. I'm not even sure if that helps but it's had me wondering along the same lines as you.

[scrawnybob]

agree with white and extras - especially going for easier and probably more valuable buying not browsing longer tail Keywords

maybe I didnt explain myself very clearly (not unusual)

say you want to rank for "xyz poker" (site) you want to have some exact match links but say you had a hypothetical 30 links to use then I dont think just "getting" 30 "xyz poker" links and absolutely zero other links, then the profile for that page or your main page is not looking remotely natural or remotely likely

that used to be ok to be that unsubtle - now I think you run a risk of getting dropped down the ranking
ok fair enough if you already have a load of natural and random links - you probably can add in a load of exact match links but not on their own IMHO

yes you want some exact "xyz poker" but natural linking to say a review or xyz poker infomation is most like to produce say for example

10 "xyz poker"
5 "xyzpoker.com"
3 "xyz"
2"x y z poker.com"

3 "xyz poker review"
2 "xyz poker reviewed"

1 "best bonus for xyz poker"
2 "xyz poker bonus code"

1 "download xyz"
1 "xyzpoker.com sucks balls but is easy money"

that imho will ultimately get you ranking for all of those things but with some / more accumulation of relevance (if thats the right expression) by having a mixed but topic focussed links will help the top keyword more naturally than just blunt instrument 30 links with "xyzpoker" bosh

hope that makes a bit more sense - and definately more success in ranking high for lots of lower search but valuable terms than stressing and trying to rank for a high search team that possibly isnt as valuable as it might look and missing the top 5-10 spots anyway

cheers SB

[pokerextras]

I think the word "Scenario" meant it was a scenario and not the real keywords he's targeting.

I also beleive google gets suspicious if all or the majority of anchor text links have the same words/phrase, it just does not look natural and could bring a penalty even if nothing untoward has been done.

I've personally been successful in hammering links with one specific anchor and no variation and have never been penalised for it, but if you want to err on the side of caution, just target two or three phrases per page and then you'll have diverse link variety.

[addaminsane]

1 "xyzpoker.com sucks balls but is easy money"

lol, gotta spice it up a bit sometimes

[Michael Martinez]

The more competitive the expression, the more complex the formula for success becomes. Most people will compete through links, but as the number of relevant documents piles up the search engines will try to bring in other factors (this is why link-poor sites often outrank link-rich sites).

In general the SEO community believes it is better to vary your anchor text rather than create a rigid backlink profile that focuses on only one expression. For the same reason, many people also suggest strongly that you vary your destinations (link to many pages on your site).

You can be as mechanical as you want. Volume may still work without any variation at all. However, you really have no way of measuring the value or helpfulness of your links if they all use the same anchor text.