How not to play a flopped set OOP

[pokeraussie]

Just got back from a 12 hour cash game session.

Bit tilted how I played a hand although considering I lost with a set 3 times and still didn't lose money in the session think I played fairly ok overall. One of the hands I flopped top set on a dry board, so slow played and he hit runner runner straight FFS.

Anyway, I found this hand a bit interesting.

An early position player opens to 10 there were 4 runners to the flop and I called with 66 in the blinds.

Flop comes down T76 2 tone board.

Out of position, I would play this hand a variety of ways, which include donkbetting, check/raising, or check/calling on the flop and waiting for the turn to show aggression to build the pot.

I decided to check to the initial raiser, he cbets to 20, one player folds and the player on the BTN raises to 45.

Initially I was going for a check/raise but with the raise I decide to alternate my line because I feel that 3betting in this spot looks super strong (although I guess it can represent a strong draw), and by just flat calling the raise it looks a lot like a flush draw. So I just call the 45 and so does the cbettor at which point I am thinking the PFR likely has a FD, and the flop raiser likely has 2 pair, straight, or TP at worst.

The turn card was the offsuit 8, I check again and the PFR (not the 3bettor) makes it 100 fairly quickly. After some thought the other player just calls. If I am already behind and the BTN has 2 pair I am pretty much drawing to 5 outs so I folded, but thinking back on the hand I think folding was a huge mistake since I didn't think BTN called with a 9 and if the PFR does have a FD I think he is leading out on the turn card a decent percentage of the time as a bluff.

Thoughts?

[leporello]

First off I didnt see any mention of stack sizes which is the most important thing in this hand.

EP raiser opens to 10 - whats his ep raising range? What 9x hands are in his range there? What's his continuing range on that type of coordinated flop 4 ways? On the turn his range becomes super polarised to 9x, a set of 7s or Ts (many people wont bet these in a 3 way turn) and a bluff. Button's call is strong here.

Stacks on the flop are crucial here. While cold 3betting the flop after smooth calling in the blinds screams a monster, it may be ok here. Also depends on cbettors range, buttons flop raising range and infinite other factors.

On the turn not sure what i'd do. I'd definitely call some amount of the time. You're calling 100 with 375 in the pot already so you're getting ok odds, especially given that you can easily get paid off on good rivers and you also have showdown value.

[Sebastian]

Ha... OK what Lep said.

I thought OOP meant "Out Of Porn" and I was going to volunteer to help.

But looks like you got your fix.

thanks,
Sebby

[pokeraussie]

First off I didnt see any mention of stack sizes which is the most important thing in this hand.

EP raiser opens to 10 - whats his ep raising range? What 9x hands are in his range there? What's his continuing range on that type of coordinated flop 4 ways? On the turn his range becomes super polarised to 9x, a set of 7s or Ts (many people wont bet these in a 3 way turn) and a bluff. Button's call is strong here.

Stacks on the flop are crucial here. While cold 3betting the flop after smooth calling in the blinds screams a monster, it may be ok here. Also depends on cbettors range, buttons flop raising range and infinite other factors.

On the turn not sure what i'd do. I'd definitely call some amount of the time. You're calling 100 with 375 in the pot already so you're getting ok odds, especially given that you can easily get paid off on good rivers and you also have showdown value.

I was playing with around 100bb. Really couldn't say his EP raising range, didn't see him open raise that much, but considering it was a smallish size open for live games I guess there could be stuff like A9s/K9s/T9s in his range. The more I think about this hand the more I think this is definitely a call on the turn, the BTN really didn't feel like he had a 9x and there really aren't that many 9x in the PFR's range. On a 4 straight board I think this is going to be a bluff a good percentage of the time when the original cbettor leads out. I am hating myself even more because I was trying to get a read on the BTN player during the hand. I basically said to him I have a set this is a pretty sick spot he said do you have 66's? How could he know that if he didn't have 2 pair on the flop. Obviously he could have flopped a straight as well but he didn't seem that strong to me.

[jdwanchalk]

This is about the worst board ever to slow play a flopped set oop on. Only thing worse would be 567 or 678 etc. If you are sure he will bet, you must raise after. First, there are so many bad turn cards. This could mean him having jacks and slowing down on a Q K A or a card coming to complete the straight. Second, he is going to be less inclined to stack off on the turn because of your totally obvious slow play on the flop. I too would check the flop if I was all but positive that he would bet it, but I would be absolutely sure to raise him when he does.

[jdwanchalk]

On the turn not sure what i'd do. I'd definitely call some amount of the time. You're calling 100 with 375 in the pot already so you're getting ok odds, especially given that you can easily get paid off on good rivers and you also have showdown value.

And I agree with this, kind of. The problem is that someone could already have a better set, better two pair, or of course the straight. The issue is that even if the board pairs on the river, there is a good chance it improved someone else more or that they will just fold. It only makes sense if you both know that you have them beat when the board pairs and that they will pay you off. I suppose check check and you beating an overpair is possible on a blank river, but that isn't all that likely.

[pokeraussie]

This is about the worst board ever to slow play a flopped set oop on. Only thing worse would be 567 or 678 etc. If you are sure he will bet, you must raise after. First, there are so many bad turn cards. This could mean him having jacks and slowing down on a Q K A or a card coming to complete the straight. Second, he is going to be less inclined to stack off on the turn because of your totally obvious slow play on the flop. I too would check the flop if I was all but positive that he would bet it, but I would be absolutely sure to raise him when he does.

I would never slowplay this board texture in a multiway pot although I would consider it vs. certain players in heads up situations when they have a wide range and I am confident I can induce spazz. The plan was to check raise but when the BTN raises basically my only play was to shove and I didn't think I was getting action from the two players in this pot.

[parttimepoker]

Don't play 12 hours straight imo.

As played and without reads, everything looks good. Raising flop only over-reps your hand and kicks out all worse hands save maybe a pair + straight draw or other combo draw, which as an aggregate are not huge dogs to your hand.

On turn, fold is fine; with a 4-straight on board you're never getting paid by anyone with half a brain when the board pairs the river unless they have the miracle worse boat or maybe J9. You also are getting nowhere near the odds to call given that you only have one out to the nuts and you def stack off every time you're beaten by bigger boat.

When you play a big pot with bottom set multiway, how often do you win?

[jdwanchalk]

I would never slowplay this board texture in a multiway pot although I would consider it vs. certain players in heads up situations when they have a wide range and I am confident I can induce spazz. The plan was to check raise but when the BTN raises basically my only play was to shove and I didn't think I was getting action from the two players in this pot.

It doesn't matter, you have to shove at that point and hope one of them calls or, at worst, you take down the pot for what it is. You are risking way, way too much by only calling.

[parttimepoker]

It doesn't matter, you have to shove at that point and hope one of them calls or, at worst, you take down the pot for what it is. You are risking way, way too much by only calling.

I agree with this if he has top set, but with bottom set I think you need to keep in worse hands even at the expense of the turn coming a bad card to balance out the times you stack off to top set.