Super interesting spot fairly readless

[pokeraussie]

This was literally one of the first hands of the session with no history with the players in the hand.

I think I was playing with a bit less then 100bb effective stacks.

EP opens to $17. I call in MP with 99 which is a bit of a marginal call but not the point of making this thread. There were 2 other calls so it was 4-way to the flop.

Flop comes down 772 rainbow. I couldn't ask for a much better flop.

However, the first player to act (older guy with a large stack) leads out for like $35/40 I can't remember exactly. The next player to act shoves for 80 something. WTF is going on here? The player who shoved didn't worry me that much, but an older guy leading this flop worries me. I think with this many players to the flop he is never bluffing and the worst he would be donkbetting with is 88+ I doubt he has a 7.

The PFR folds and its on me. What are you doing?

[leporello]

This was literally one of the first hands of the session with no history with the players in the hand.

I think I was playing with a bit less then 100bb effective stacks.

EP opens to $17. I call in MP with 99 which is a bit of a marginal call but not the point of making this thread. There were 2 other calls so it was 4-way to the flop.

Flop comes down 772 rainbow. I couldn't ask for a much better flop.

However, the first player to act (older guy with a large stack) leads out for like $35/40 I can't remember exactly. The next player to act shoves for 80 something. WTF is going on here? The player who shoved didn't worry me that much, but an older guy leading this flop worries me. I think with this many players to the flop he is never bluffing and the worst he would be donkbetting with is 88+ I doubt he has a 7.

The PFR folds and its on me. What are you doing?

Seems you already know the answer....

[pokeraussie]

Cool. I know on some $1/$2 tables this would be a snap shove once the PFR folds, but I think I am happy with folding versus this older guy. Considering he had a larger stack, I am going to assume he mostly plays premium hands and rarely bluffs (especially in spots like this) until proven otherwise.

[jdwanchalk]

Yea this is an easy fold. You have the best hand maybe one out of five times at the absolute best against two opponents.

[pokeraussie]

You have the best hand maybe one out of five times at the absolute best against two opponents.

I don't think this is true at all. The donkbetting range of most $1/$2 players is ridiculously wide on this board. When the short stacked player shoves again he is doing it with a wide range. If he is bad enough to make a loose call with a 7x hand he is bad enough to shove with a lot worse.

[Hazo]

Yea this is an easy fold. You have the best hand maybe one out of five times at the absolute best against two opponents.

+1

[pokeraussie]

You're right. Everyone is solid at $1/$2 his donkbetting range is strictly TT-QQ and the player who shoved would only be doing it with a 7x hand obv.

[Hazo]

Why are you so defensive, if you don't want discussion, don't post.

You said it was the 2nd hand of the day - how can you justify being ahead purely based on "everyone at 1-2 are complete donks?"

There was a big flop bet and a shove, it's very likely one of them had an over pair or a 7.

You think you call there and get in against AK and A10?

Seriously, what could those two players have? For your theory to be right, they both must have complete air.

So the guy that bet $40, surely must have called the $80 shove? What did they have?

[pokeraussie]

I encourage discussion, adding +1 adds nothing to the discussion though.

This hand was a fairly easy fold because there was a nit in the hand. I am disagreeing that this is an easy fold in most situations, however. When there are two fishy $1/$2 players involved in the hand I think this is far from an easy fold I am doing well against their ranges. Besides making a set this is one of the best flop board textures for my hand.

On boards like this, I have seen players donkbet and raise the flop with complete air. Typically though, the donkbet will be weak and just a stab at the pot hoping everyone else missed. When the short stacked player shoves he will usually have at least a pair, but like I said in a previous post if he is bad enough to be calling a big size raise pre with a 7x hand, he is likely bad enough to be shoving a range similar to 2x suited, 33+. Against this range 99 is doing great, and you can likely discount JJ+ since being short stacked they would have shoved these hands pre-flop.